Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Every week, with will post photos of a specific dress and discuss the various aspects on how the dress was built. A dress dissection, if you will.
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Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Heather » Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:30 am

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Vienna Le Rouge
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Postby Vienna Le Rouge » Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:54 pm

Wow. What a beautiful gown! I love the pointed hem of the bodice.
I would say the this is a day dress from 1876-77. It is fairly simple with little decoration, long sleeves all the way to the wrist, and what looks like a high or very modest neckline.
It could also be worn as a dinner dress. This was the beginning of true "Natural Form".

The reason I think this gown is from 1876 or 77 is the long curiass bodice with out any bustled undergarment. There is still a little fullness at the skirt back, but it has slimmed down even more compaired to the previous years where the bustle was still seen. The low-slung front drape or overskirt softly tied back was very popular.

To make this gown I would use the TV221
1878 Tie-Back Underskirt,

The TV324
1878 Long Draped Overskirt modified to drape lower and smoother in front,

And the TV420
1879 Cuirass Bodice, modifying the neckline and lengthening the bottm edge a little.

This is probably one of my favorite styles from the 1870s :wink:

xoxo~
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Postby cathyo » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:57 pm

1. The date of the dress, to a specific year.

I agree with Vienna that it's very early natural form, probably 1876. Why? Because the shape of the skirt is stilll elliptical and trained, but the bustle is quite gone.

2. Type of dress, for example: day, evening, ballbown, reception, etc.

I also agree with Vienna that this is a day dress because of the high neck and long sleeves. The model's restratined hairstyle is another clue.

3. The reasons for your choices, in detail.

See above.

4. Any construction ideas you may have to make the dress yourself, including patterns, trimmings, and correct support garments.

You could use TV428, the 1880 Jacket bodice, with slight modifications to the sleeve, and TV225. but with larger puiffs/gathers. The 1879 petticoat would be a good undergarment choice. As for fabrics, you could do this dress in a wool challis print or even a restrained calico. I would use dark velvet ribbon and self-ruffles for trim.
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--Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
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Postby Miss Elisabeth » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:33 am

Im going to say 1877 (1878???? :?: ) Because the dress is definatley natural form, but it isn't quite as "Tubelike" as the other styles.


It's definatley a day dress because it isn't too fancy, and the background always gives a hint (Yes, I'm cheater aren't I :wink: )

i'd use TV328 over skirt and TV428 bodice. I think. :? hard to decide.

I'll add any other :idea: ideas :idea: later

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Postby diana » Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:49 pm

I believe this is an natural form day dress of the early years of natural form (76 or 77) due to the style of the bodice and overskirt. The middle part of natural form had the bodice extending down to the knee (is polonaise the word for this type of bodice?) while the later natural form years 1880-82, the split pannier skirt was in vogue.
Diana

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Postby Sara P » Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:14 pm

I'm going to say 1875 for this one, simply because it doesn't have a pocket. Looking in my Harper's Bazaar, it seems that pockets came in in '76 and stayed until the truly slim fitted skirts of 1880ish. Although it might not have pockets simply because it's a day dress, though. I love the print and the sparseness of the trim on this one. It's more appealing to eyes schooled to modern day lack of embellishment, I think. I'd make this one up in a nice cotton print (not a calico!), perhaps a wine color with tan/black figures, and then black velvet bands for the trim, along with some ecru lace. Or a pale blue with navy figures, and navy velvet for the trim :).
*hugs*
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Postby diana » Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:18 pm

Good eye! I didn't even think about pockets! duh!
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Postby Heather » Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:16 am

This is a summer day dress from the June 1877 issue of The Delineator.

The full description from in the magazine is given below.


What makes this an 1877 dress?

The first thing you look at is the shape of the skirt. It is very slim in front with fulless behind the knees, in a triangle shape but no bustle. This puts the dress as 1876 to 1877. By 1878, the skirts were slimmed down behind the knees as well. The long bodice would be seen from 1875 fo 1882, but the fuller sleeve puts it at the 1870's, so together looks very 1876-78.

The plain nature of the overksirt with very little draping, also implies an early natural form style. I was struck by the similarity to the square overskirts of 1875. This seems to be an adaptation of that earlier style to the new skirt shape.

Someone mentioned the lack of a pocket. Those pockets on the skirts were all the rage in 1875-1876. This one does not have the pocket so would be from after that time. There was one plate in the same magazine that did have the pocket, so the fad was wearing off by 1877.

It is a day dress becuase of the short skirt (well, not trained anyway), the full length sleeves, and the high neckline.

Construction ideas

I love this dress, it is so cute and simple.

The skirt would be TV225, floor length version. This should be worn over TV121 and I would add TV170 for extra fulness at the back, if needed.

The bodice would be TV420, with the edges lengthened and pointed as needed.

The full description givne below fully describes the manner of making up the overskirt. I think that TV324 could be adapted to do this, with the casings and such put into the overskirt as decribed in TV362. The tapes and casings to pull up the dress makes the swags removable for easy washing.



Full Description:

LADIES CAMBRIC COSTUME.

For warm weather, costumes of this description are always popular, affording as they do a sense of genuine comfort to the wearer and a fresh and dainty spectacle to the eye of the observer. The skirt is in the new yoke style, which removes all fullness from about the waist, but is wide enough at the bottom to fall in graceful folds at the back. The yoke is about half a yard deep, and for worsted dresses may be made of lining material. It is fitted to the belt at each side by two darts, and has a short bias seam at the back, the edges above the scam being faced to form a placket opening. To the bottom of the yoke is attached the skirt portion, which is six-gored and has a few gathers on the upper edge of the back-breadth only. No flounce or ruffle completes the bottom of the skirt, though either may be used if the plain finish of braid illustrated is not considered sufficient. The pattern to the skirt is -No. 4858, price Is. 6d. Sterling or 35 cents, and may be used in making a costume any material with very satisfactory results.

The over-skirt is arranged with a -wide front gore, which is fitted at each side by two short darts and shaped to form a center point and a point at each side. The back-breadth however, has a rounding lower edge and is longer than the lower edge of the front gore, to which it is joined. The top of the breadth is gathered to the belt, and a strap tacked underneath at each side assists in draping The main portion of the draping occurs at the side, a casing being sewed underneath just back of the seam so as to form five shirrs, into which tapes are inserted and then drawn up and tied. Other tapes are fastened to the casings at the top and bottom, and are tied across the back to draw the front closer to, the figure. The edges are trimmed with a straight ruffle of the goods, headed by one row of wide braid and two rows of narrow. The ruffle is bound with braid, but may be hemmed if preferred. The pattern to the over-skirt is No. 4865, price 30 cents, or 1s. 3d. Sterling.

The basque is designed to match the over-skirt, having a pointed lower edge trimmed with braid and a ruffle. It is loosely fitted by a dart at each side of the front, under-arm gores, and a seam at the center of the back. The front edge is curved prettily, and closes its whole length with buttonholes and buttons. The neck is completed with a deep collar, pointed at the front and back and edged with a ruffle like that on the overskirt, headed by two lines of narroe braid. The sleeve is in coat shape, and is so arranged that when it is inserted into the arm's-eye, a roll like that at the top of a gentleman's coat sleeve is observable. The wrist is completed with a ruffle of the goods, finished and headed with braid to correspond with the remainder of the costume. Velvet ribbon is often used in place of braid, but must be detached when the dress is laundered. The pattern to the basque is No. 4866, price 30 cents. or Is. 3d. Sterling. 'This pattern, as well as the others, is suitable for any dress goods, and the garments shaped by them may be trimmed with flat bands or galloons of the handsome new styles.
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Miss Cindy » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:05 am

By any chance was there a picture of the front of this gown? I'd like to see it, if there is one.
Thank you!
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Heather » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:38 am

They didn't have a full pic of the front, but they did have the individual pattern pics. Interestingly, the bodice pattern pic is not as pointy as the dress pic.
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Miss Cindy
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Miss Cindy » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:21 am

It is interesting about the pointedness. I find it interesting that eye enjoys the entire ensemble more than the parts. Thank you for sharing the pictures!
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Frank815 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:14 am

Any chance of the overskirt turning into a pattern, or could you modify current patterns?
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Miss Cindy » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:36 am

I would think you could modify the long draped overskirt to obtain the one pictured. If that helps you any, Frank.
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Heather » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:08 am

I really like this dress it the pics. But I worry that the front is so plain. I do want to make a new overskirt for this time period, but I can't seam to find anything that is not similar to something I already have. This is similar, but has some interesting differences. I'll keep this one in mind.

I was reading the pattern description this morning, which is more detailed than the fashion description. They did some interesting things with the back panel that was not obvious in the pic. The back has 2 pleats at the side seams, and the rest of the back is gathered inbetween. Then they put in two tie strings to pick up the back on either side. I've never done that before, but I like how it looks.
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Miss Cindy » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:27 am

How about this overskirt?
http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/se ... 5762?img=0
Or if you might be interested in a bodice/overskirt combo. I suppose one could use the tea gown, but it would be nice to have a pattern for this without have to modify the gown pattern. :)
http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/se ... 6730?img=1
And these would be great to have, as the whole ensemble.
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/se ... es&pos=571
http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/se ... 5835?img=0
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/se ... es&pos=944
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Heather » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:00 am

Miss Cindy,

Love those. But I forgot to mention that the overskirt would have to be simple enough to actually be able make a pattern for it. The really pretty stuff is too complicated, or needs to be draped directly onto the skirt. And the less-pretty stuff looks a lot like the patterns I already have. It's kinda annoying.

Of all those pics, only the second one, the black dress, is kinda doable. Though honestly, cut the tea gown 18" too long and pleat it up the side back seam, gather it up the front. Pleat up the back separately to make poufs.
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Miss Cindy » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:49 am

Miss Heather,
I know they need to be more simple. I know that. :) But I'd really like a pattern for that more complicated one, the first one. It would be worth it, in my humble opinion. :D
Oh, well, I tried!
Sincerely,
Miss Cindy
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby Heather » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:56 pm

That first one, LOL, I can't even tell what it does. It looks to me like a strip with a tuck in the middle, with triangles of fabric sewn into the tuck. repeat 3 more times. No way I can make a pattern for that, sorry. :cry:
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby diana » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:44 pm

Let's do a poll.

I dislike high collars. Would this dress look better with TV428, the 1880 jacket bodice or....the 1881 dinner bodice? Both with hemline and/or back revisions of course.

Or maybe just cut it in a small V neckline.. Hmmm.
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Re: Dress 6, week of August 21, 2004

Postby diana » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:06 pm

I've been working on this overskirt using the long draped overskirt. I cut the side back into more of an angle shape but I can't seem to get that cute square cut look on the side back. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. It looks more like the historic pattern picture right now.

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