Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Find out how to get that dang thing to fit.
britgeekgrrl
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Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:39 pm

FWIW, I've never had a muslin of a commercial pattern fit *so* closely, first time out, so I'm already pretty pleased! That said...

I'm a plump, petite, busty woman - big rack, tiiiiiny shoulders (seriously, the shoulder width on my basic bodice block is four inches and that's with a half inch seam allowance for the armscye)

So, on with the corset, out with the tape measure... Put together a single-layer muslin with a size K front and size B back.

(edited to add: I'm planning to make this as a sleeveless garment)

Fits great across the bust apex, waist and hip and in terms of length but it's striking me as still too wide at the shoulders - the raw edge of the muslin is almost an inch and a half past my shoulders, while the pattern instructions mention it should be more like 3/4, and there's *something* going on in the armscye at the back.

Re: the shoulders - can I just re-draw the pattern and bring the straps in about 3/4 of an inch and redraft the armhole with the spin of a prayer wheel? Or is that asking for trouble? (Or did I possibly goof my measurements and should try another muslin with a smaller front and larger back?)

Re: the armhole: The best way I can describe it is that it looks almost like the very upper portion of the side back is too wide, so the armscye is buckling outward by a noticeable amount. I'm guessing there has to be a certain amount of that going on, but how much is too much?

If I can address that by simply taking it in a bit on that piece just in the last inch and a half of the seam (as it fits great up until that point), then I'll do it but, really, I'm just making this up as I go along. Hence this post. :)

Dunno if this'll help but, FYI, my measurements at the mo' are: bust 42.5, across back 12.5, waist 34 (managed to accommodate that just fine by letting the darts out a tiny amount...)

As ever, bountiful thanks for any advice!
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby Heather » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:24 pm

Do you have photos by any chance? It is very difficult to know exactly what is going on with a description alone.

It sounds like the problem is that the angle for the strap on the front is to far out. So yes, you can redraw the strap straighter up. To help you get the angle correct, you can most likely take a little dart in the base of the strap of your mockup, and see which angle would be best, then transfer that to your pattern. Or better yet, add some fabric to fill in the neckline side of the shoulder straps, and then draw the strap on your mockup right where you want it to be. For the 1890's, you do want the strap to be firmly on your shoulder, rather than off shoulder.

I am not sure about the back issue. But it sounds to me like the strap is too long and it is falling outwards? Or it could be that maybe the angle at which the front strap attaches to the back needs to be adjusted? Or maybe once you get the front strap sorted, it will fix the back also. This is where a photo might help.

As far as needing a larger back vs smaller front, the basic idea is to get the armhole placed properly to your body. If you look at the back, the armhole at the armpit should be rather close to your arm, while standing straight with your arms hanging at your sides. If you have a gap at the back of the armpit, then you should consider a wider back size. If this fits well, then you have the correct size. Getting over the top of the shoulders is just a matter a getting the straps to head off at the correct angle, and be the correct length.
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:28 pm

Excellent!

I'll tinker as advised and if that doesn't fix it, I'll be sure to share a photo, next post.

Thanks!
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:07 pm

Okay, still fiddling about with the sleeve placement, but I got a picture of what's going on in the back of the armhole that has me puzzled. (attached)

It's entirely possible that it'll go away when I move the strap...

(Apologies if it looks a little funky, I laced myself into the corset a little tighter than usual.)

- Johanna
Attachments
Tv_mus_side.png
Tv_mus_side.png (167.24 KiB) Viewed 7111 times
Heather
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby Heather » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:16 am

Ok, I see. I wouldn't worry about that little bit. It looks like it is mostly the seam allowance, that will be turned under anyways.

On a side note, it looks like your back is a little narrow, and it might help to cut a larger size for the back, and smaller for the front. The back of the armhole is showing a bit of a gap, and the front of the armhole is jammed into the arm. It think you can easily go 2 sizes larger in the back, and a smaller size for the front.

This may or may not make the bubble at the back shoulder worse. If it does and changing the angles of the strap is unhelpful, then you can always take in the curved sideback/back seam as needed to smooth it out.

One last thing. I can't see the front at all, to know what is going no there, but I do see a troubling sign at the side. If you look at your side just above the waistline, you can see there are diagonal stress lines. This means that the front of your bodice is pulling down in the front, or up in the back, rather than being straight around your body. These lines should be fully horizontal. Try pulling the back down, to be sure that the back is not shifting upwards during the fitting. If that does not solve the lines, then lift the front upwards, and shorten the shoulder straps to hold it up there.
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:07 am

Hmm.... Digging through the archives here, I'm embarrassed to admit it looks like I ran into exactly the same issue a few years ago - cutting too small a back and too large a front. *blush*

So, back to the cutting table!

Thanks!
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:41 pm

A quasi-update.

1) I made a (new) corset that actually fitted me - rather than squeeeezing into one that fit *mumble* pounds ago.

2) I took the mockup in the posts above and put steel in at the apt areas.

(apologies for huge img size, I can't figure out how to resize them via phpbb code...)

Image

Image

Methinks that the same advice - try a larger back and a smaller front - still holds, but I thought I might try asking for feedback before barreling on ahead, just for the sake of variety! ;)

- Johanna
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby Heather » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:10 am

Looks like your new corset fits nicely!

Unfortunately, I can't really see anything about the fit in the new pics, as your arms raised up to take the photos distorts the fit. Some of the gaping at the front neckline might be solved by taking in the center front seam above the bust. This won't change the angle of the straps, though.
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:48 am

D'oh! I'll get the b/f to take pix after I get off work tonight.

Thanks!
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Alrighty, then! Got the b/f to take some pix. I hope these suffice.

Image

Image

Thanks again for your help! :)

- Johanna
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby Heather » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:06 am

Fantastic pics, thanks! :D

This is the same mockup as before, right? It doesn't really look all that bad.

I still think the back is a little bit narrow, and can go up a size or two. And this will of course mean a smaller front. If you decide to go with what you have now, then you can just trim the armhole forwards more, to just lay easy around your arm. The straps look pretty good, as far as angle goes. There is a trick you can use to get rid of the bagging at the front of the armhole. More about that below. You do have some gaping at the neckline edge at the corners in front. Some of that might just be the fabric stretching on the bias with all the handling. And I think the rest can be removed by taking in the center front seam about 1/4" (more if you add some extra room over the bust overall) starting about 2" away from the neck edge.

In looking at the darts, they seem to stop a little bit low on the bust. They look like they should be about 1" taller. With your bust line fuller above the tip of the darts than at the tip, I am thinking that you could use some more fabric at the bust line. When you redo the math, maybe add 1/2" or so to your total bust measure. Raising the darts up higher will eat into some of that bust fabric, but the higher darts will give a more pleasing look. I also want to be sure that your back overlap for the closure is the same 1" from neckline to hem. If you are skimping on the closure overlap at the bust level, then add that back into the bust measure as well.

The diagonal waist lines are gone, so good news there.

Ok, back to the strap/armhole front thing going on. Go ahead and take a horizontal dart, from the armpit to the point of the bust, and see if you can smooth out the sides of the strap. Then you can either keep that dart in your final bodice, or you can transfer that extra into the regular side dart of the front. I have a diagram and such on how to do that.

Image

Basically, once you have the armpit dart drawn on your pattern, slit the center of both the armhole dart and the second dart to almost the point of the bust. Then pivot the side section of the patter piece until the armhole dart is closed. This will usually make that second dart about twice as wide as it was originally. Redraw the armhole round again at the front.
britgeekgrrl
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:11 am

Yep, same mockup - I didn't really give it a fair chance, previously, all things considered.

Given that I'm something like an F-cup at the moment, I'm not surprised if the bust needs more fabric! ;)

Super-useful advice on all counts! I can't wait to get started on the next draft, thanks!

- JM
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:08 pm

Here we go again! Fresh mockup - did all alterations suggested (although I went only one size larger on the back, not two - so it's currently a size K front and a size C back. Gosh, I love having a huge bosom), and here's what I got.

I might have been letting the straps drift down my shoulder a little - it's late and I'm a bit boggled...

Image

Image

Thanks again! :)
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby Heather » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:29 am

You know, I think you still need 2 sizes larger in the back. :) When you make the back larger, you will need to redo the math, and go with a smaller front.

Take a look at your side view. You can see how far away from your arm the armhole is at the back. And the side/front seam is towards the back of your arm. The front of the armhole is still crammed against your arm.

But it looks better overall. It should just be a matter of taking in the darts a bit to sort the front out.
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:33 pm

Right... my boyfriend has told me no more sewing until Boxing Day (meep!), so this is the final mockup for this week, methinks. :) I redid the math and came up with size J front, size D back. Done nothing else to it, as why complicate things?

Image

Image

I think I'm seeing more and more what you mean about going with the smaller front and a larger back. Possibly one more step in each direction? I landed in between size I and size J for the front (closer to "I"), but the directions state that when that happens, to go with the larger, so I did...

Thanks again! :)

- Johanna
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby Heather » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:31 am

This is a big improvement! I think you are correct, maybe one more size up in back and then down one in front.
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Re: Fitting TV490 - sleeve/bust

Postby britgeekgrrl » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:37 am

Alrighty! Thanks for all your help!

(As per the b/f's request, I'm stepping away from the sewing machine until after Xmas, so you'll get some peace for a few days...)

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