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1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:32 am
by Helena
Hello again. :)

Now I have finally put on the corset so now I have put on the fitting muslin.

My measurements, measured with help of a friend:
Back Width 15"
Back length 15.5"-ish
Bust 42"
Arm hole, my friend measured snugly, and it produced 17" but I have a feeling it won't do .. ;) (don't wanna skin tight in THAT area)
Waist: 29"

According to the measurements I chose size G.

I cut out the size G, the bodice parts (sans the collar and sleeves) and decided to not do any modfications yet.

No boning yet. But I could sew on rigilene boning for temp fitting. I think I have some somewhere. Will buy spiral boning for the blouse.

Being alone now I photographed myself with camera on tripod.

NOTE that the seam allowances are NOT trimmed away for the edges (neck, sleeves, bottom etc)

I see a lot of problem areas.

Everything below bust is way too loose.
Neck hole is quite loose. I am not sure how much ease you should have for that.
Arm hole = also bit loose
Bust = pretty much exact.

Shoulders = not too nice. Lots of wrinkles. I am not 100% sure, but it might be that I have more "straight" shoulders than the patterns? Or might it be something else?

And then, is the size ok? or should I choose other size?

The bottom area should be taken in, of course.

THANK YOU for all inputs. :)

front-view.jpg (153.03 KiB) Viewed 18231 times

back-view.jpg (140.5 KiB) Viewed 18231 times

FRONT VIEW, I am standing on knees here so camera got the upper angle area.
front-view-from-top.jpg (69.72 KiB) Viewed 18231 times

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:33 am
by Helena
Side view. (bad photo yes)
side-view.jpg (148.39 KiB) Viewed 18233 times

To show that the bottom area is big:
back-view,-pinched-in.jpg (143.67 KiB) Viewed 18233 times

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:17 am
by Heather
That fits pretty good for a first fitting.

First thing I see, is that the center front closure/pin seam looks smaller than 1". Pin the center front 1" in from the edge, top to bottom. This will ensure that you have seam allowance and over lap. Right now, it looks just a tad big through the bust, which may be more than just taking in the overlap the full 1". Lift your arms up and tug the fabric forwards at the bust level, then drop your arms back down. This will pull the back closer in to your body, and let you know exactly how much ease/extra fabric you have. With the fabric resting easy across your bust, pinch out the closure to where it just fits, then pin the closure 1/2" outside of that mark to give yourself ease again. Whatever this distance is from the edge of the fabric, re-pin the center front from bust to waist the same distance. Above the bust, pin along a line to the neckline that it naturally wants to fall at, taking in the fabric at the neck to keep it smooth, but not tight.

Pulling everything forward should also solve the armhole too tight at the front of the arm. The armhole fabric should lay smooth around your arm, no bunching. Trim away any excess if you still have any.

For the shoulder lines, I am having a discussion in another thread on this same issue, so I will just refer you to there for now, rather than retype it all. Let me know if you need more on that. One thing not covered in that topic, is the gapping at the back of the shoulder. Hopefully, this may disappear when you pull everything snug in the back. If not let me know.

For the rest below the bust, take in the darts to make it all fit. Pull them in enough to make the fabric fit slightly easy, and not stretch tight. You want to keep a tiny bit of ease below the bust as all the seams and boning of your bodice will be bulkier that you mockup and will take up some room.

Back to the armhole, as this is an1890's bodice, the armhole should be cut farther back over the shoulder than previous decades. I think you can easily trim the top of the armhole back about 3/4", tapering back to the armpit gradually, both front and back. This will keep your sleeve up high and puffy.

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:54 pm
by Helena
Hello again!

Oh dear, of course I forgot about the center front overlap and just thought of the normal 1/2" allowance. So the center front is 1" in from the raw edge?

I definitely need to redo this tomorrow. :)

And THANK YOU for taking your time with me. I will follow your specifications at tomorrow's fitting.

EDIT: I also wanted to say that at the very area for the fullest part of bust it was taut (not stretching out). But of course, both above and below it is loose.

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:58 pm
by Heather
I know it looks like the front is tight, but when you look at the back, you can see looseness at bust level. Arms hanging down will pin the fabric in place, and keep you from moving that extra to the front. I think you will see what I mean at your next fitting.

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:14 pm
by Helena
Will do! :)

Or might the front piece be too small to make it tight in front but loose at back? Or nah, I am probably just rambling away, it is you who make the patterns and should know more than me. :)

It is kind of hard to fit myself. I only have small bathroom mirror so the camera is my way to see how my backside looks like. ;) Not ideal but it is better than nothing, and also I can share (awful) photos... ;)

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:43 am
by Helena
Now second fitting.

What I did different from last fitting:

I pinned the front 26 mm in from edge.

The front darts has been taken in a little bit. (but not all way, there's little more than 1 cm play)

Made a tuck at top back to take in fullness.

That's all changes I have done.

What do you think?
There's so much folds in back area at waist level. I am probably more sway backed than the pattern is. (my corset have been modified follow my back more or I would just get very sore back).

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:13 am
by Heather
That looks great! I think you fix on the back length is a good call, I am sorry that I didn't see that.

I think the only thing left is to take in the waist more. I think you can take in the side seams. as well as the darts, to make it more fitted in the back, keeping the hips the same size. Or you might even need to let out the seams more over the hip. Once the sides are taken in, most of those wrinkles should be gone.

The darts look a bit puckery, I think you can make them taller to smooth them out. I can't see exactly where the stitching ends right now, but you can see where they naturally smooth out, just below the top of your corset. Take the dart up to that height

I am still thinking you can cut the armhole a bit higher if you want, for that 1890s look. But the rest of the shoulder and neck area looks good.

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:44 am
by Helena
I am on my way with the fitting. :) Not my favorite thing to do, to say the least but I want it to have perfect fit, so.. ;)

Heather wrote:I am still thinking you can cut the armhole a bit higher if you want, for that 1890s look. But the rest of the shoulder and neck area looks good.

I don't know if I understood you or not. My theory of your suggestion is to basically shorten the shoulder seam, would it be correct what you wanted to say? (sorry for being confused)

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:40 pm
by Heather
I am saying that you can cut the armhole larger over the top of your shoulder, so the fabric is narrower front neck to armhole. If that makes sense. The opposite of the 1860's where the shoulder hangs long over the arm; the 1890's has a narrow shoulder with those big sleeves.

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:08 pm
by Helena
Ok, with the image of opposite of the 1860's then I think I understand you better. :)

I so prefer the 90's puff sleeves over the 60's ones... :D which is funny because I prefer 1960s fashion over 1990s. :D

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:33 am
by Helena
Now, on the third cut of fabric (had to do because of the very worn state of earlier muslins :D) and maaaany fittings... And then I realized I should fit over the actual skirt. ;)

It is starting to get close.

For this third one I have put rigilene as boning.

My concern is the front bust fit, it looks like it is fitting too tightly or something. The arrows shows the corset boning. (that is,corset, not bodice...)

What can I do to hide this? Make the front bust area bigger maybe?

Then there's small boo boos... Such as the diagonal creases on the side back pieces. I could remove them by pinching out excess on the pattern pieces in similar way.

Back sleeve hole still gappy.

What I have done:
Made the shoulders more straight (so much better around the neck..)
Taken in at many places and let out at the bottom for hips.
Taken in a litle bit at the back side seam line (to cure the gappyness but not enough apparently)
Hmm, yes many small changes here and there..

What do you think?
Posting this now, I will add more info if I remember them. :)

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:05 am
by Heather
I think it looks great. Once you get to the real bodice, you will have at least two layers of fabric over the corset and some of the lines will go away. However, it is not a problem to be able to see your corset through your dress. If you look at the old photos, you can tell who is wearing a corset and who is not, because you can see it, the lines of the corset, through the dress. So don't worry about that part.

The small gab at the back shoulder is not that big a deal. Once you put on your sleeves, it will look perfectly normal, an leave you room to move. If it really bothers you, you can take in the very top of the curved seam a tad to get it smooth.

There is one thing I am not liking, and that doesn't show up in the previous mockups, and so might be you just have your shoulder lifted or something. In the side view, at the back of the arm, the armpit level of the mockup is well below your t-shirt armpit. The armhole at this point really should pretty follow the t-shirt line.

The stress lines in the side back are not that big of a problem, as stress lines show up in mockups more than they do in your final bodice. But I would be happier if they were horizontal, rather than angled. I think the issue is just a matter of matching the pieces better along the curved seam. Lift the side piece up a little bit, so that the edges match better at the armhole. This will lift the whole side piece up along the back edge, and should make the stress lines more horizontal.

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:27 am
by Helena
I haven't really changed the armhole so much. At least not lowered it at all. Oh, just made the shoulder more straight.

The chemise's armhole is a little bit narrow, if that's what you are seeing?
I have always thought that the arm hole or arm pit, is a little deep.

But I could sew on the muslin sleeves I have cut out and see how it fits.

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:27 am
by Helena
Continuing on the same bodice muslin as before, I added the sleeves and collar.

The stitch line for the sleeves to the shoulders is about 4 cm into the edge on the collar. Then gradually curved out to meet the normal seam allowance under the armpit.

On one side it is pleated, other is gathered. I think I will go for gathered.

I was not sure where to match the seam lines. I matched the inner sleeve seam line to the notch of the bodice, and the outer seam line to the shoulder seam line. Was I right?

The collar I used the pattern as is, and added it to the neck hole, using the normal seam allowance width.

Problems I see:
The collar seem to sit too high up on the bodice. My idea of solution: cut away a little more on the seam allowance close to the shoulder seams, and move out the collar. Might have to make the collar wider too to match measurement around.

The back diagonal stress wrinkles are still there as I haven't modified the parts. What made me unsure is when I put it on the mannequin it suddenly looked normal! (the mannequin is normal mannequin shape, not my shape) So I am not sure what to do to make this better. It looks like my body shape make the diagonal things.

(and I need to take in a little bit of width of the bottom front area, at the dart seam closer to sides.)

I have photographed the pattern pieces for the back side, it is quite modified as you can see. What you can't easily see is that I have shaved off quite a lot from the vertical seam lines. (area between bust line and waist)

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:32 am
by Helena
More pictures.

Pelicular thing about the fit on the mannequin - no diagonal marks!
provdocka.jpg (61.99 KiB) Viewed 18104 times

The pattern pieces...
pattern-pieces.jpg (89.99 KiB) Viewed 18104 times

Thankful for all inputs. :)

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:34 am
by Helena
Back photo did not upload, adding again:

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:40 am
by Heather
The reason the diagonal back lines disappear on the mannequin is that the center back is rising up on the manequin, but on your body, it is being held lower. I am looking at your fixes, and it looks like you added a little bit to the top of the side back piece? I think instead, if that seam is coming up short, that you should add to the bottom at the hip, moving the whole seam upwards to even out the armhole edge.

The rest looks great!

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:50 am
by Helena
Thank you! I will try to fix the back thing later. :)

Do you think the collar is fine despite the pull marks?

Re: 1896 Plain Bodice - fitting

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:41 am
by Heather
I think the main body fits great, and the shoulders in general look really good. I am not sure it is worth futzing with the collar. Every time you turn your head or move, it is going to pucker somewhere, so maybe perfect is an illusion. If it bothers you, go ahead and see if you can get it to smooth out. Your ideas on that sound like the right things to do. Larger neckline, larger collar to go with it. (It can't be a bad thing to fix it, unless you start to bog down in the search for perfection. Keep your project moving forwards, and happy.)