silly questions - sitting in a bustle & lawn parties?

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isara
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silly questions - sitting in a bustle & lawn parties?

Postby isara » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:37 pm

Please forgive the potentialy stupid question, but...

The local guild here is holding an 1878's peacock lawn party in August. As it's outside, I'm imagining that the seating options will be grass, tables, and benches. I'll try and bring my own chair, but I'll have to find something that won't interfere with the bustle.

Does anyone have any pointers on the bustle or historical information on lawn parties?

:oops:
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Postby isara » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:43 pm

:oops: again...

Just looked again and noticed that since 1878 is natural form, with those lovely fantail skirts (perfect for peacocking!), I won't have to worry so much about the bustle.

But my other question is: what's appropriate for a lawn party? I've love to do a white peacock fantail gown, but it'll get really soiled really fast outdoors. What would a natural form promenade gown look like?

Thanks everyone.....
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Postby Greeneyed Gypsy » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:43 pm

http://digital.nypl.org/mmpco/browseFTr ... cid=409050

long link...hope it works.

this is a french image, 1876 I think it says aug. hard to read...looks lovely for outdoor wear to me. :D
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Postby Greeneyed Gypsy » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:49 pm

oh I wanted to mention that the one on the left could be achieved with the tea gown, no wateau back, hitched up and one of the trained skirts under it with the rows of pleating, and a lovely 3 in wide floral ribon to detail the top.

and the one on the left could be the natural form basic bodice, and a skirt with an extra layer sorta hitched up again at the side.

also note the hats...Heather's artless (right) and I think its clieo (left) look EXACTLY like the ones in this print...I have them and the size proportion is perfect to replicate this look. One or both of these dresses are on my 2005 resolution list :D
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Postby Greeneyed Gypsy » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:50 pm

OY its been a long day and Im taking cold medicing...forgive me...the first paragraph I am refering to the one on the right for the tea gown pattern :oops:
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Postby Greeneyed Gypsy » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:53 pm

http://digital.nypl.org/mmpco/browseFTr ... cid=409050

one more I saved for the excelent view of the hats :D
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isara
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Postby isara » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:26 pm

Thanks Josie!!

I hope you feel better soon!!!
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Postby m d b » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:50 pm

A long train will be fine:) I'm pretty sure it was only from about 1880 on that trains for outdoor use stopped. Mind you it might have been about the time the natural form was getting really really fitted...

though...
Pate 120 of Victorian and Edwardian Fahsion: A Photographic Survey (aka Fashion and Reality) shows a dress that was probably for outdoor use (the lady is posed by the photographer in a park type setting, with a hat and parasol) and she has a train.
She has a very long fitted bodice, it looks like it could be even all the way around, three quarter length sleeves ending in a double pleated ruffle, fairly low rectangular neckline the waist encircled with a ribbon that is bowed in front.
The skirt involves a wrapover type overskirt, and a kilted underskirt. It almost looks like the skirt is very narrow with a seperate train, but i htink it is just tied back.

The fabrics are all very light, and trimmed in at least two kinds of lace.

It sounds rather like what you are wanting to do, so go for a train:) Just remember to use a balayeuse (aka dust ruffle) so you can let all the dirt collect in that;) If it's just whipped into place it's easy to take out to wash separately:)
Last edited by m d b on Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Marie » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:39 pm

Lovely... but it still begs the question... how *do* you sit in a bustle/hoop skirt/bustle pad? :)
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Postby ashariel » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:00 am

I sat in a folding wooden chair (think typical outdoor wedding seating) at my wedding while wearing a TV108 and it was a piece of cake. All I did was gently back up against the chair until the bottom hoop started to poke out forward. Then, I'd grab the bustle cage with my hands and gingerly lift it, and sit, and the bustle steels would collapse between my back and the chair back. I hope that made sense!
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Postby m d b » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:06 am

Looking at photos of women wearing bustles, there are the "perch on the edge of the seat", and "sit on the side of the hip" methods to choose from;)

Even in a natural form gown this is the best way to sit, especially if you are wearing long stays or the super long cuirasse bodices that end at lower hip level.

If I could navigate a small stage full of Victorian paraphrenalia, trying to remember the 60 odd pages of dialogue I shared with usually one other actor at a time, in a train and cuirasse bodice, and sit, cry and leap of the seatee multiple times, trust me; angling to the side is the easiest way;)

On the set we had another chair that was quite small, and had arms, that one was easier to get into and out of, but was terrifying as the supports were full of bora holes! The arms allowed me to be stable as I angled myself to sit.

I also had to sit on a very low stool, luckily my RA doesn't affect my knees too often, but it did mean carefully sweepign my skirts to one side before sitting as the stool was far too low down to move the skirts as I was sitting. Again I wound up on an agle perching fairly close to the edge.
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Postby Greeneyed Gypsy » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:42 am

Well wearing the TV 101 you can pretty much flop yourself down...I have not noticed any trouble sitting at all the bustle just collapses. in the old pictures mentioned the perched delicately came from the cages being rigid and the pads were such that you could not sit ON them with out damaging the cage. So they would nudge the bustle off to the side and sit on one cheek so to speak...its rather amazing that the bustle stayed popular as long as it did... :D

But with a modern bustle you can simply sit...its really not an issue.
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Postby Heather » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:30 am

Sitting is really very easy in bustle and hoops, the technique is the same for both. The corset will tend to make you sit on the edge of your chair rather than full in it, and a hard seat more comfortable than a soft couch. Oh, and sitting on the ground is easy, though once again, the corset makes it rather uncomfortable. The hard part is getting back up without tripping in your skirts

1. Walk fully in front of the chair you intend to sit in, and turn you back to it.
2. Back up into the chair, or have the gentleman move the chair under your skirts, until you begin to feel the chair under you.
3. Then simply fold you knees and sit gracefully onto the chair. The skirt and hoops will gracefully fall/fold around the chair.


This is why dinner seating starts with the chair far away from the table, and the gentleman always assists a lady to sit. Also, if the chair is lighter weight, the heavy skirts will tend to shove the chair over, so someone musst hold it inplace. Most of what we call "polite behavior" of men really comes from necesity. The chairs, picking up anything you drop (bend over in a corset, are you mad? Yes, it's possible but not ellegent.), holding doors open (try getting through a door while wearing a train and having to hold the door yourself.)
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Postby Lily Orleans » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:13 pm

Heather wrote: the heavy skirts will tend to shove the chair over, so someone musst hold it inplace.


Heather,

I have a question about the heavy skirt part. In looking at some of the pictures (old & new) how do you keep all the ruffled trim at the bottom of the skirts from being too heavy for the skirt fabric? I mean if you are using silk wouldn't all that lace/ruffles/trim stress the bottom of the skirts & possibly tear the fabric? Is there a way yo prevent this?

Thanks!

Also loved the first picture posted! The dress on the right is a good example of a lot of ruffles on what appears to be a kind of delicate fabric. Right?
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Postby Heather » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:06 pm

If using a lightweight fabric for your skirts, you should flat line it with a broadcloth to give it strength. I flatline silks for sure. Gauzy fabrics should be flatlined, too. Especially if adding lots of trims that may pull at it.

I pretty much flatline everything these days anyway. If you are not using a lot of trims, the extra wieght will make a plain skirt lay better.
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Postby Lily Orleans » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:36 pm

Thanks Heather!
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Postby Rebecca » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:42 pm

Isara, I'm assuming you're going to the GBACG picnic, have you gone before, do you need to be a member, what else can you tell me about it? I would love to go as well and have started planning a dress for it. Maybe you can PM me and we can chat. Thanks everyone for all the wonderful info and I love the pictures Josie, I just got some new ideas! Since this will be my very first bustle dress how do you just "hitch up" the overskirt? Should I just play with the draping and then secure it with needle and thread? Thanks as always for all the help and suggestions you're such a terrific group!!!! :D
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Postby Greeneyed Gypsy » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:09 pm

OH hitching up was usually done with tapes and pleates....which would be easy except that the princess dress has no "waistband" to tack them too. Since you don't need it pulled up much it may be that attaching a tape underneath and pulling the sides in toward each other would work...I bet these type of dresses suffered stress rips all the time where things where "hitched" up :D
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Postby isara » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:16 pm

I yam I yam!!

The info about it is here, on August 20 at the Conservatory of Flowers.

You don't have to be a member at all, although the member discount is pretty substantial if my memory serves correctly.
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Postby Rebecca » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:37 am

Thanks Isara and Josie! I really want to go to the picnic and I'm thinking about joining GBACG. I think I really need to get going with the sewing, there's about 5 event that I'd like to go to but I don't have enough dresses, hmm how can I buy more fabric and patterns without driving boyfriend nuts?! :lol:

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